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Thread: Dynosheets and tuning of the SST transmission on the 2009+ Ralliart and 2008+ MR?

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    Authorized FEC Vendor Newbie TTP Engineering's Avatar
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    Dynosheets and tuning of the SST transmission on the 2009+ Ralliart and 2008+ MR?

    I had an interesting thing happen I wanted to share with the forum. Recently a customer we custom tuned with a 2009 Ralliart took their car to a non-eddy loaded Dynojet to test the car and apparently get tuned on this cheap Dynojet. They did not quite understand why eddy current Dynos are important, how a SST equipped twin clutch automatic should be tuned and how dyno numbers are achieved/ what they represent when it comes to these unique semi-automatic equipped Mitsus.

    Here is some info we posted with explanations and datalogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundfades View Post
    In terms of ttp numbers, recent threads and re tunes have shown that their dyno rates high, as was previously suspected. This in no way says they arent good at what they do, and im not bashing, im just being honest.

    Tims ralliart dynoed 274 whp and 294 torque at ttp, but only 245 whp on AWD's dynojet. After some time on the dyno his numbers were brought up to 260 whp.
    Tim's car was tuned in a multi shifting real world driving mode where boost pressure was being monitored and set for WOT as one would actually drive the car in real life.

    Tim's car was never set to 26psi of boost, ever here as you will see below. You are welcome to your opinion, however you are lacking many facts and hope that you choose to ask any questions you like in order to obtain the info you need to form an informed opinion.



    What happens when you put a car tuned for the street or a correctly loaded Mustang Dyno that mimics the proper load on the wheels and put it on a "dumb" Dynojet with rollers that weigh more than the car's weight, it will build additional load in order to spin the "dumb rollers" (not eddy loaded properly) which is not the natural way the car would drive on the street.

    Putting a car on a dynojet where the force needed to spin the rollers is greater than the force on the driveline would be on the street WILL INCREASE the boost as if the car was traveling uphill. Boost is relative to load. Too much load or UN-NATURAL load on the car will have boost deviate from how it would actually operate on the street in real world conditions.

    How many 2009 Ralliart owners jump in their car and stick it in manual shift mode in 3rd or 4th gear and drive around all day like that?

    The answer is no one. We tune all cars, especially Ralliart and MR's as if the car was actually on the street. We will spend a little time on a one gear dynosheet and then once the worthless sheet of paper is printed (for SST trans cars), we actually use the dyno to correctly tune the SST vehicle for normal everyday use in an actual driving and shifting mode. Dynojet 424x is unable to correctly load the vehicle properly not only under one gear pulls, but also during the rolling road tuning of the car as it would operate on the street.

    Mustang Dyno AWD-500 is able not only to load the car for its exact weight but also aerodynamics, placing additional load on the vehicle the faster it goes just as you would have the wind blowing back on the windshield and front of the car.

    The STATE of tune for a SST equipped 2009+ Ralliart and MR when it leaves our Mustang Dyno facility is that of one that will demonstrate maximum performance on the street or track in a regular shifting mode.

    Here is Tim's datalog of wide open throttle quartermile performance complete with BOOST, AFR and RPM.

    What happened to 26psi? As we stated when you force an automatic twin clutch car to drive as it is not designed for and put it on a machine that makes the car move a heavier weight than it would take to move the car on the street you will get screwed up results which is why we do not tune that way.



    To reiterate. We will tune a single gear pull for a basis for posting a dynosheet however we change the tune once the dynosheet is saved so the customer has an optimized tune from 1st-6th gear to be used in the real world on the street as we datalog and record not only engine vitals during this multi gear tuning process, but also performance, whp and tq with boost are also measured so an entire quarter mile of performance data can be analyzed such as how much power in each gear.

    It is also important to tune under this method in order to insure the car is not knocking as it shifts and or knocking as it reaches the higher gears which is common of inexperienced tuners who only tune one gear. The customer always wonders why their great one gear dynosheet traps low at the dragstrip. Its because what was tested in 3rd or 4th that didn't knock on the dyno does knock at the track from longer term wide open throttle use and higher coolant and intake air temps.

    To summarize:

    Was our tune taken and tested on a NON-LOAD BEARING dynojet with improper and unrealistic load placed on the vehicle? It appears so assuming our tune was not deliberately changed before testing. After all there is a target on our back by this competitor.

    Was the same gear tested as we tuned for?
    Not sure and really does not matter as the one gear tune is just a starting point for our multi gear performance tuning process.

    Even if our tune was tested in the same gear elsewhere would the results represent how the car left our facility?
    Absolutely not. Even if we left the car in it's one gear tune. Even if the car was a manual transmission stickshift, the load on a non-eddy brake Dynojet is not representative of the proper load the car would have on the street nor an Eddy Load Bearing Dyno like a Mustang Dyno AWD 500. David Buschur got rid of his Dynojet for just this reason. Track and real world representation of the tune is not the same as how a Mustang Dyno tuned vehicle performs on the street and track.

    Was the 1320'quartermile performance, whp, tq and boost plot tested by the Dynojet facility? No. If they had, they would have recorded maximum 20-22psi peak under normal on road driving conditions just as we tuned it for.

    No, there was no before and after datalogging of boost, AFR or quartermile performance timing and mph info as #1 Dynojet non-eddy brake dynomometers are unable to place the correct load on the car for quartermile testing as they spin "dumb rollers" without realistic load placed on the driveline.

    Dynojets are unable to test timed quartermile perfomance as they lack this feature under a Mustang Dyno as they are primitive compared to the MD.

    If they had, one would be able to test how the car ACTUALLY drives before and after with regards to boost, afr, performance data E.T. and mph testing so that a conclusion can be drawn.

    Summary: What was actually tested and completed then by placing a MD-AWD-500 dynotuned Ralliart on a Dynojet non-eddy brake dyno?

    The AFR and boost was tested under a one gear pull which is not how the car runs in real life. When the car is shifting and boosting the AFR measured in a one gear pull is much different than in a real life driving situation. All that was measured was how we did NOT tune the car for as that is NOT how the car drives.

    What happens when you tune an SST transmission equipped vehicle for one gear and let the customer go?
    The car performs differently on the street and whatever one gear dynosheet obtained is not applicable to the actual performance experienced on the street when the customer actual gets in their car and wants to drive it real world conditions.

    What was tested of TTP's tune on the independent Dynojet?
    A multi gear realistic driving tune, programmed specifically for on-road performance was forced into running in one gear only which in no way represents the actual performance of the vehicle on the street as the car does not drive that way in real life. A dynosheet reflected forcing a twin clutch automatic SST to run in only one gear changing the AFR's and boost it would run in real life shifting and driving WOT.

    I hope this information helps SST owners better understand the tuning process at TTP, the importance of tuning your car on an Eddy Load bearing Dyno such as a Mustang, Dyno Dynamics, Mainline type of dyno and why comparing a one gear pull on a SST car is such a stupid, meaningless idea and not representitive of our tuning. The true test is on the road with QUANTITATIVE results such as actual quartermile performance E.T. and MPH which is the true representation of a customer's results.

    The work we do is for the benefit of the customer and the optimum performance of the vehicle. We do not tune one gear dynosheets and then let the customer go. The difference in our tuning process is that we have not only the proper equipment to tune the vehicles in multi gear real world conditions, but also the experience to know what a dis-service it would be to the customer to tune for a dynosheet and let them go thinking this one gear pull of a 6sp tune is best for their car and overall performance of the vehicle.
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  2. #2
    Moderator Newbie AlienNation's Avatar
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    Re: Dynosheets and tuning of the SST transmission on the 2009+ Ralliart and 2008+ MR?

    Interesting article!

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